The Filmmakers Podcast: David Fincher’s Cinematographer Erik Messerschmidt, Editor Kirk Baxter, and Sound Designer Ren Kylce, on “The Killer”

Giles Alderson and Dom Lenoir
November 14, 2023
The Filmmakers Podcast

We have a bumper episode for you with not one, not two, but three Oscar-nominated or Oscar-winning filmmakers who work with David Fincher. We have Cinematographer Erik Messerschmidt, Editor Kirk Baxter, and Sound Designer Ren Kylce, who have all worked with Fincher multiple times. We talk about their latest collaboration, The Killer, which starring Michael Fassbender and Tilda Swinton.

Listen to the podcast:

The Filmmakers Podcast
Apple Podcasts
Google Podcasts
Spotify

Follow the podcast on Twitter and Instagram. Support it on Patreon and access bonus episodes, industry survival guides, and feedback on your film projects!

Editing ‘The Killer’ So That ‘We Crawl Into His Ears and Sit in the Back of His Eye Sockets’

David Fincher’s Oscar-winning go-to editor, Kirk Baxter, helped achieve a new kind of subjective cinema with Michael Fassbender’s assassin character.

Bill Desowitz
November 12, 2023
IndieWire

[Editor’s note: The following interview contains spoilers.]

David Fincher’s The Killer is his most experimental film since “Fight Club”: a subjective, cinematic tour de force in which we get inside the mind of Michael Fassbender’s titular assassin after he experiences his first misfire in Paris. Fully exposed for the first time, the hunter becomes the hunted and he’s forced to cover his tracks while stepping outside of his comfort zone. In the process, the film becomes a noirish existential journey from nihilism to faith, which is what first attracted Fincher to adapting Alex Nolent’s graphic novel.

For go-to editor Kirk Baxter (the Oscar-winning “The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo” and “The Social Network”), it was one of the hardest Fincher films to cut. It’s divided into six chapters, each with its own look, rhythm, and pace tied to Fassbender’s level of control and uncertainty, and the editorial process necessitated the creation of a visual and aural language to convey subjective and objective points of view for tracking Fassbender. In fact, it’s reminiscent of what Hitchcock called “pure cinema,” only much bolder.

“It was like a ’70s film and I found it to be one of the more challenging movies to make because it’s not sort of juggling a bunch of different character lines or going back and forth from past to present and that sort of thing,” Baxter told IndieWire. “It’s just a straight line, but the exposure of that with nowhere to hide, like you can’t kind of jazz hands your way out of something. It’s like everything is just under the spotlight and you’re not having dialogue and interaction to kind of dictate your pace. It’s a series of shots and everything has to be manhandled and manipulated in order to give it propulsion, or how you slow it down. But just by its very nature, it had to be sort of let’s go [and see how much Fassbender has to break his own rules to survive].”

Read the full profile

Editing David Fincher’s ‘The Killer’ on Premiere Pro

Netflix has another hit movie on its hands with David Fincher’s The Killer. We spoke to the film’s editor, Kirk Baxter, and Assistant Editor, Jennifer Chung, about how they put it together using Adobe Premiere Pro.

Andy Stout
November 10, 2023
RedShark

Kirk Baxter ACE picked up two Oscars working on previous Fincher titles you will probably have heard of, The Social Network (2010) and The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo (2011). In other words, The Killer has some serious pedigree behind it, and much like this year’s Academy Award for Editing winner Everything Everywhere All At Once, it was cut on Adobe Premiere Pro.

Jennifer Chung ACE was one of the Assistant Editors on The Killer and represents a 14-strong editing department. Chung is currently cutting her first indie feature (“It’s a different kind of stress,” she says laughing), but looking back on The Killer, is there any particular sequence that stands out as her favorite?

“I think it has to be the fight sequence,” she says. “The fight sequence is pretty epic. And it just goes on. I think Kirk did an incredible job with that; it’s just really fun to watch.”

“I watched something on TV which had a big fight sequence two nights ago, and I couldn’t follow it,” says Kirk Baxter, who edited The Killer and put the movie’s signature fight scene together. “I knew people were fighting, but I couldn’t track who owned what fist and what thing. It was just a jumble of limbs edited quickly.”

No such failure to follow the action in The Killer’s own fight scene, which Baxter says is essentially a sequence of 18 scenes with multi-camera setups depicting a single fight all strung together in a row. He was cutting the sequence as Fincher was shooting it. The shoot would break at lunchtime when he’d start cutting the first half of the day, getting the second half later at the end, then cutting into the evening and sending it to Fincher to see if any pickups were needed.

“It was this crazy, relentless week of all of us going around the clock to know that we had the thing,” he says. 

Read the full profile

“I Don’t Think Directors Should Be Amenable”: Erik Messerschmidt on Shooting The Killer and David Fincher’s Simple Process

Nick Newman
November 8, 2023
The Film Stage

One of my most-read pieces last year revolved around two films that hadn’t shown a single frame. Strange except for the fact that it was a conversation with Erik Messerschmidt, whose recent time’s been devoted to shooting new films by David Fincher and Michael Mann––exactly the subjects who will earn eyeballs with just a mention. One year later, with The Killer winding down its limited release before a Netflix debut on Friday, I spoke again with Messerschmidt about the intensive, exhaustive, rewarding process behind one of 2023’s supreme entertainments, and how being guided by modern American cinema’s most-obsessive auteur was the only way to get it right.

The Film Stage: I made a point of seeing The Killer at New York’s Paris Theater––it’s a nice-sized screen, well-projected, a Dolby sound system. The unfortunate truth is that most watching it on Netflix won’t have a comparable experience.

Erik Messerschmidt: Sure.

Millions of people can see it, but then you think about people’s set-ups––let alone competing for their attention. How do you generally feel about this dichotomy, and specifically with this film?

I think the cinema is an extraordinary community experience, and it’s for that reason that it’s worth protecting. I think there is something really extraordinary about being in the room and experiencing something at the same time, and there is something equally extraordinary of being a director and experimenting whether or not you can control the audience response en masse. You know? Which is something you can only really test in the cinema environment. Look: there’s a real thing about being able to pause it and go to the bathroom, or pause it and go grab another glass of wine or whatever––pause it and watch it later. The “captive audience” part of the cinema is what makes it unique and important. I don’t necessarily agree that the technology is the reason to go to the cinema. I think the immersive nature of being in the black room with the single screen without screaming kids and your phone sitting there––all the other distractions––that’s a real thing. And I think the sound is a real thing, although people have home theaters in their homes now and surround sound and stuff. But it’s not the same as being in a calibrated environment.

I sort of go back to my childhood and think… I didn’t see Star Wars projected until I was, probably, 19 years old, but I had seen it 50 times on my parents’ VHS. In the wrong aspect ratio. And it’s the movie that made me want to make movies. As a cinematographer––as a student of cinema––I think it’s vitally important to project cinema and encourage people to see movies in a cinema. This movie in particular is especially well-appreciated in a cinema, but I would argue more for the sound, to be honest––because of what Ren Klyce is doing with the sound. I hope people enjoy the picture, too, obviously. I don’t put much stock in the idea of “Oh, well, it’s going to be on Netflix so people are going to see the film on television.” I just think people see films on television anyway.

Half the movies I see, by the way––and I’m hesitant to admit it, but it’s true––are on airplanes. [Laughs] I think the goal of filmmakers is to reach the audience, and you want to reach as many as possible, and hope people see your movie in the cinema. That’s where it’s intended. But you have to accept the reality that there are many avenues to view the image, and if someone sees it on Netflix, hopefully next time there’s a screening they get up and go. When there’s a screening of Lawrence of Arabia I jump at the opportunity because there are so few opportunities, but it doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy it at home on my Apple TV either. [Laughs]

Read the full interview

From Gone Girl gaffer to Oscar winner: In conversation with David Fincher’s cinematographer Erik Messerschmidt

EXCLUSIVE: We speak to the award-winning cinematographer ahead of the release of Fincher’s new Netflix thriller The Killer.

Emily Murray
October 26, 2023
Total Film (GamesRadar+)

As we begin to discuss his prolific career and latest film The Killer, Erik Messerschmidt admits that he’s surprised to be here. After working on several commercials and television shows, Messerschmidt ended up on the set of director David Fincher’s hit film Gone Girl, working as a gaffer – for those who don’t know, that roughly means chief lighting technician. The duo bonded, with Fincher then recruiting him as director of photography on several of his projects, including beloved TV series Mindhunter and biographical drama Mank, for which Messerschmidt won the Academy Award for Best Cinematography.

Going from gaffer to Oscar-winning cinematographer in such a short period of time is quite the impressive career trajectory, and is something Messerschmidt confesses he wasn’t chasing, telling Total Film (GamesRadar+) in our interview: “It wasn’t at all – it was never my goal, really. I was happy as a gaffer, and while I did want to be a cinematographer it felt far away and wasn’t something I was pursuing. But on Gone Girl, I had never experienced a director with such skill before and I fell in love with it. I just thought ‘God, if I can just keep making movies with this person I’d be so thrilled.’ The care and attention David [Fincher] gives to everything is infectious.”

Read the full profile

The Killer cinematographer says film should be seen in cinema

The film is released on the big screen this weekend before coming to Netflix next month.

Patrick Cremona
October 26, 2023
Radio Times

‘The Killer’: DP Erik Messerschmidt, Editor Kirk Baxter & Sound Designer Ren Klyce On “The Joy” Of Working With David Fincher

Antonia Blyth, Senior Awards Editor
October 7, 2023
Deadline

In the David Fincher-directed film, The Killer, from a screenplay by Andrew Kevin Walker, and based on a graphic novel, Michael Fassbender stars as an assassin battling his employers when a hit goes terribly wrong.

Speaking during a panel at Deadline’s Contenders London event, editor Kirk Baxter addressed a rumor that the role required Fassbender to not blink at all.

There were many times watching the dailies where he heard Fincher’s voice saying, ‘That’s terrific, but let’s see that once again without the f—ing blinking.’ Baxter added, “Not so much that Fassbender needing that direction, it’s just been a thing.”

Watch the full interview

Look at the Deadline Contenders Film London Studio Photos

Venice Film Festival: “The Killer” World Premiere

September 3, 2023
Venice Film Festival (YouTube)

Press conference featuring Director of Photography Erik Messerschmidt ASC, Sound Designer Ren Klyce, Director David Fincher, and Editor Kirk Baxter ACE.

Red Carpet featuring Producer Peter Mavromates, Director of Photography Erik Messerschmidt ASC, Writer of the original “The Killer” (“Le tueur”) comic Alexis “Matz” Nolent, Editor Kirk Baxter ACE, Sound Designer Ren Klyce, Director David Fincher. The original stream has the ambient sound turned down to a minimum because it is too busy and noisy, and only barely intelligible in the close-ups.

Coca-Cola – “Blade Roller” (1993)

In 2021 AD, the futuristic megalopolis of ZERO-CITY is under martial law. When the authorities try to enforce a curfew, a gang of renegade “Blade Rollers” defy it rollerblading daredevil-style through the deserted rain-slicked streets.

For this stylistic homage to Blade Runner (Ridley Scott, 1982), director David Fincher recruited the cinematographer of the classic film, Jordan CronenwethASC, one of his all-time heroes.

It was also the first collaboration between Fincher and Producer Ceán Chaffin.

Watch all the versions of the commercial and read The Fincher Analyst dossier:

1993. Coca-Cola – Blade Roller

Soundstage Access: Gwen Yates Whittle, Supervising Sound Editor

Brando Benetton
June 6, 2022
Soundstage Access

For this masterclass on the Art of Sound in film and TV, we welcome on the show Gwen Yates Whittle, a 2-time Oscar-nominated sound professional whose credits include this summer’s Jurassic World: Dominion, Saving Private Ryan, Top Gun: Maverick and the upcoming Avatar: The Way of the Water.

In today’s conversation, the Skywalker Sound member and I break down some of Hollywood’s biggest sound moments. We discuss Gwen’s beginning in the industry and why the prospect of sound editing intrigued her in ways that sound mixing never did; her relationship with detail-oriented directors like Steven Spielberg, James Cameron, and David Fincher (Fight Club, Panic Room, Zodiac, Benjamin Button, Gone Girl); the process of layering animal sounds to create the dinosaur voices in the Jurassic World franchise—as well as how the pandemic suddenly impacted Gwen’s work. All of this… and much more!

Gwen’s newest movies Jurassic World: Dominion and Top Gun: Maverick are now in theaters across the world, with Avatar: The Way of the Water opening in December 2022.

Listen to the podcast on:

Apple Podcasts
Spotify

Soundcloud
Google Podcasts
Stitcher

Soundstage Access on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram.

Conversations with Sound Artists: Dialogue Editing and ADR with Gwen Whittle

Glenn Kiser, Director of the Dolby Institute
September 21, 2015
SoundWorks Collection / The Dolby Institute

Editing dialog and working with the original recordings from the set is one of the most under-appreciated arts in cinema sound. In this episode of “Conversations with Sound Artists,” two-time Academy Award nominee Gwen Yates Whittle talks with the Dolby Institute’s Glenn Kiser about why George Lucas thinks dialog editing is one of the most important parts of the process, why she loves working on low-budget independent films (“They talk more,”), and why David Fincher and Meryl Streep love doing ADR.

I am Sitting in a Room, Listening to Mank

Cormac Donnelly
October 2021
Screenworks

This video essay examines the innovative use of sound recording and mixing in David Fincher’s Mank (2020). Whilst Mank received a limited theatrical release, the film is most widely available via the Netflix streaming platform. The essay takes as a starting point the rerecording and spatialisation of the soundtrack, with a focus on the home viewing experience. Donnelly argues that the re-recording process used on Mank’s soundtrack could potentially suggest a method by which films released into the domestic market could retain the reverberant sonic signature of cinematic exhibition. The published screenwork draws upon interviews with Fincher’s sound designer Ren Klyce, as well as the work of experimental composer, Alvin Lucier in order to better understand the experience of listening to Mank in our own rooms.

Watch the video essay and read the research statement

Read the original in-depth interview with Ren Klyce:

Making Mank’s Vintage Hollywood-Magic Sound